Unintended Consequences: How the “relevant” church and segregating youth is killing Christianity.
I recently spent six-months doing a rotation as a hospital chaplain. One day I received a page (Yes, hospitals actually still use pagers). Chaplains are generally called to the rooms of people who look ill: People gray with kidney disease, or yellow with liver failure, discouraged amputees, nervous cancer patients. In this room, however, was a strikingly attractive 23 year-old young lady sitting up cheerfully in the hospital bed, holding her infant daughter and chatting with family and friends.
Confused, I stepped outside and asked her nurse, “Why did I get paged to her room?”
“Oh, she looks fabulous. She also feels great and is asking to go home,” the nurse said.
“…And you are calling me because?” I asked in confusion.
The nurse looked me directly in the eye and said: “Because we will be disconnecting her from life support in three days and you will be doing her funeral in four.”
The young lady had taken too much Tylenol. She looked and acted fine. She even felt fine, but she was in full-blown liver failure. She was dying and couldn’t bring herself to accept the diagnosis.
Today I have the sense that we are at the same place in the church. The church may look healthy on the outside, but it has swallowed the fatal pills. The evidence is stacking up: the church is dying and, for the most part, we are refusing the diagnosis.
What evidence? Take a gander at these two shocking items:
1. 20-30 year olds attend church at 1/2 the rate of their parents and ¼ the rate of their grandparents. Think about the implication for those of us in youth ministry: Thousands of us have invested our lives in reproducing faith in the next generation and the group we were tasked with reaching left the church when they left us.
2. 61% of churched high school students graduate and never go back! (Time Magazine, 2009) Even worse: 78% to 88% of those in youth programs today will leave church, most to never return. (Lifeway, 2010) Please read those last two statistics again. Ask yourself why attending a church with nothing seems to be more effective at retaining youth than our youth programs.
We look at our youth group now and we feel good. But the youth group of today is the church of tomorrow, and study after study after study suggests that what we are building for the future is…
…empty churches.
We build big groups and count “decisions for Christ,” but the Great Commission is not to get kids to make decisions for Jesus but to make disciples for Him. We all want to make Christians for life, not just for high school. We have invested heavily in youth ministry with our lives specifically in order engage youth in the church. Why do we have such a low return on our investment?
What are we doing in our Youth Ministries that might be making people less likely to attend church as an adult?
What is the “pill” we have overdosed on? I believe it is “preference.” We have embraced the idea of market-driven youth ministry. Unfortunately, giving people what they “prefer” is a road, that once you go down it, has no end. Tim Elmore in his 2010 book entitled Generation iY calls this “the overindulged Generation.” They ask for more and more, and we give it to them. And more and more the power of God is substituted for market-driven experience. In an effort to give people something “attractive” and “relevant” we embraced novel new methods in youth ministry, that 20 years later are having a powerful shaping effect on the entire church. Here are the marks of being market-driven; Which are hallmarks of your ministry?
- Segregation. We bought into the idea that youth should be segregated from the family and the rest of the church. It started with youth rooms, and then we moved to “youth services.” We ghettoized our children! (After all, we are cooler than the older people in “big church”. And parents? Who wants their parents in their youth group?) Be honest: Have you ever thought you know more than your your student’s parents? Have you ever thought your youth group was cooler than “big church”?
- Big = effective. Big is (by definition) program driven: Less personal, lower commitment; a cultural and social thing as much as a spiritual thing. Are those the values that we actually hold?
- More programs attended = stronger disciples. The inventers of this idea, Willow Creek, in suburban Chicago, publically repudiated this several years ago. They discovered that there was no correlation between the number of meetings attended and people’s spiritual maturity. They learned the lesson. Will we?
- Christian replacementism. We developed a Christian version of everything the world offers: Christian bands, novels, schools, soccer leagues, t-shirts. We created the perfect Christian bubble.
- Cultural “relevance” over transformation.We imitated our culture’s most successful gathering places in an effort to be “relevant.” Reflect on the Sunday “experience” at most Big-box churches:
- Concert hall (worship)
- Comedy club (sermon)
- Coffee house (foyer)
And what about Transformation? Is that not missing from these models? Where is a sense of the holy?
6. Professionalization. If we do know an unbeliever, we don’t need to share Christ with them, we have pastors to do that. We invite them to something… to an “inviter” event… we invite them to our “Christian” subculture.
7. “McDonald’s-ization” vs. Contextualization: It is no longer our own vision and passion. We purchase it as a package from today’s biggest going mega-church. It is almost like a “franchise fee” from Saddleback or The Resurgence.
8. Attractional over missional. When our greatest value is butts in pews we embrace attractional models. Rather than embrace Paul’s Ephesians 4 model in which ministry gifts are given by God to “equip the saints” we have developed a top-down hierarchy aimed at filling buildings. This leaves us with Sunday “church” an experience for the unchurched, with God-centered worship of the Almighty relegated to the periphery and leading of the body of Christ to greater spiritual power and sanctification to untrained small group leaders.
Does not all of this work together as a package to leave us with churches full of empty people?
Here is an example: Your church. Does it look like this?
If you look closely, you will see the photo on the right is of a nightclub, rather than a church. Can you see what I mean about “relevance” and the clean Christian version of what the world offers? Your youth room is a pretty good indicator of what your church will look like 15 years from now. Because of the principle “What you win them with, you win them to,” your students today will expect their adult church to look like your youth room.
In summary, “Market Driven” youth ministry gave students a youth group that looks like them, does activities they prefer, sings songs they like, and preaches on subjects they are interested in. It is a ministry of preference. And, with their feet, young adults are saying…
…“Bye-bye.”
What might we do instead? The opposite of giving people what they want is to give them what they need. The beauty is that Christianity already knows how to do this.
Once upon a time our faith thrived in a non-Christian empire. It took less than 300 years for 11 scared dudes to take over the most powerful empire the world had ever seen. How did they do it? Where we have opted for a relevant, homogenously grouped, segregated, attractional professionalized model; the early church did it with a multi-ethnic, multi-social class, seeker INsensitive church. Worship was filled with sacrament and symbol. It engaged the believing community in the Christian narrative. This worship was so God-directed and insider-shaping that in the early church non-Christians were asked to leave the building before communion! With what effect? From that fellowship of the transformed, the church went out to the highways and byways loving and serving the least, last and lost. In that body of Christ, Christians shared their faith with Romans 1:16 boldness, served the poor with abandon, fed widows and took orphans into their homes. The world noticed. We went to them in love rather than invited them to our event.
The beauty of where we are today is that, unlike the girl in the hospital bed, our fatal pill could still be rejected. It is not too late. We can leave the culture-centered models we have been following for more Christ-centered ones. More ancient ones. More rooted ones. And the most beautiful thing is that students actually enjoy them.
So many have commented on this post in the last month that I did a follow-up: O Yeah! And other things I wish I would have said on “Cool Church.”
the gospel side 
Brother Matt,
Thank you for your great ministry to young people. It’s wonderful that you are so focused on the younger folks.
As an on call chaplain in a Chicago hospital, I am accustomed to ministry to diverse people. I try to come alongside of people of many different denominations, religious preferences, ethnic origins. It certainly makes my job interesting.
I also feel your sadness at the flight of young people from the Church today. (It doesn’t matter which denomination or faith-stream.) I am trying to do what I can to help my home church (UCC, in the north Chicago suburbs). Since I have taught classes and led groups on prayer, been a prayer partner, led prayer events, and preached on prayer, I am going to be heading up an intercessory prayer ministry, starting this fall. I hope and pray (along with my great prayer team!) that God will be glorified and people edified. Lots to do yet, but God willing, things will get done in time.
Thanks again for your openness to mix things up! (A man after my own heart.)
Grace and peace to you,
Elizabeth
Hi Elizabeth,
Thanks for the kind words. You are obviously a person of prayer! It sounds like you are part of making a great church happen in the UCC.
As a youth worker for more than 25 years now, I feel as if there are many things that could be different to reach the young for ,Christ. Each youth is different in the gifts, their interests, and what they want out of life.
The young of today are the same as the young of the 50’s 69’s 70’s but this generation, are it seems given so much more and with it they are not also given the responsibility to be responsible for making good choices in life. There is such a lacking home environment today in the lives of our young, where the everyday values are taught. As a Church, we are to preach and teach the Word of God as Paul encouraged Timothy.
Some of the best teaching times I have been able to share with young lives is at Church camp, as a member of a Church camp in a 100 acre area of Virginia, where you can get some time to know youth and share the Word of God with them.
1 Timothy 4:13
Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching.
The gift of exhortation is the special ability to counsel or challenge others toward a healthy relationship with Jesus Christ. It is always my prayer for God’s continued help each day for His guidance in reaching young lives better for Him!!!!!!
It is good discussions as these which will keep us who have a “heart to reach the young” active in this as God has gifted each of us.
I have two sons, both were raised in the Church, our youngest is 21, but does not attend Church today. But it is always my continued encouragement to him to begin attending again. Our oldest son, is married and has a young three old and is active in / at their Church. Our oldest spent many of his middle school years on mission trips and also each summer at Church camp. Both were involved in the youth group and we could not be more proud of them both. Please keep them both in their prayers. . .
Hi Matt, Thanks for sharing. I will pray for you and your family in my noon time prayers in a few moments. Thanks you for your thoughts and for serving youth in Jesus’ name. I took the liberty of deleting your personal contact information at the bottom. blessings, Matt+
I know this sounds simplistic, but I can’t help but wonder…if the church began evangelizing and ministering more like Paul, perhaps we would be winning more souls.
It’s funny. Some of the comments are saying, “ditch Paul.” You are saying “more Paul.” In times of discontinuous change we agree there is a problem but don’t agree on solutions. 😉
I would say ditch Paul. My grandson is named Peter because my daughter thoroughly disliked Paul. That was very interesting because I shared her antipathy to Paul even though I had never discussed it with her or with anyone else! I think Paul is very judgmental and that he didn’t truly speak as Jesus would have spoken — he was nit-picky and anti women. His ministry consisted mostly of no-nos and not Christian love. In my family 2 put of 3 of my siblings haven’t attended church as adults even though it was a requirement in our youth. The same can be said of my own children, only one of three attends church. I’d say the judgmental views of Paul and his successors are largely to blame. The new pope gives me hope that maybe the Catholic Church can change and I hope the rest of the ultra-conservative churches can also change and become more Christlike.
I am sorry that you have such a dismal view of Paul; I encourage you to read his epistles more deeply, keeping in mind that (1) he was addressing specific and salient issues in the communities he wrote to, and (2) he was writing as one who had experienced God’s love, grace, and mercy in a very profound way. His discussion of Christ-like love to the Corinthians and his exhortation of holy living to the Philippians stand out to me as indicators of just the opposite of your impression of Paul. He also had counsel to share about women (and other issues) that reflected the prevalent social and cultural norms, but we should not recklessly abandon those words for these reasons. I believe that God would not have allowed Paul’s writings to be canonized if He had no purpose for using it in saving and sanctifying us.
I don’t understand the negativity Christians have to mega churches. I was blessed to have visited saddleback Church this summer; have visited Lakewood where Joel Osteen pastors and attend bay area fellowship in corpus Christi. These people seek to serve God and bring in unbelievers sharing the gospel. And living out the great commission! Because it doesn’t look like your church; it is the closest thing to Acts I have ever seen! Church is not God we are the body. We are just called to serve and trust Him to change the lives. We cannot do it. Osteen never claims to be a good preacher or speaker, but he loves God and loves people and serves with his gifts. He has opened a lot of eyes and hearts to Jesus’ love. A relationship with God is not a one time church experience, bring them in, let God do the saving!
Olsteen seems to enjoy money and fame as much as he loves God.
He has a message that isn’t recognizably Christian other than using the name “Jesus.” Positive Confession, Word of Faith, Prosperity Gospel: those just are self-salvation. http://marc5solas.com/2013/06/29/marc5solas-is-a-meany-pants/ , who will be too Reformed for many has a helpful post about why it isn’t mean to evaluate theology and reject ideas that aren’t helpful, Scriptural or traditionally Christian. His theology tends to bless the preachers of it the most. I am, I think understandably, suspicious of that.
Cleo, I completely agree with you. There are many comments made both by Rick Warren and by Joel Osteen that are completely against scriptural teaching. But remember, in the last days, false prophets like them will abound, and the church wants their ears tickled, not to hear the truth. Why? Because the truth isn’t pretty. And it isn’t easy. Most of all, it is not popular.
If they love God as much as they pretend to, then they would accept and preach and take a stand on ALL of God’s principles and declarations, not refuse to discuss or offer an opinion regarding what the Bible teaches for fear of “offending” people.
As a minister, it sickens and saddens me to see how many are being led astray. The gospel of Jesus Christ does not need us to make it more “relevant.” The word of God will never change; but we will wither and fade away like grass. The Holy Spirit does not need a ‘makeover’ in order to convict the human heart and bring it to the saving knowledge of Christ. Time to remember that the Lord has no need for us to modernize Him or His message. The reason so many “contemporary” churches are losing ground fast is they have twisted their own understanding of being IN the world and not OF it.
Hi Amy,
I do not know much of his preaching, but I am a fan of Rick Warren the man and leader. Anyone who reverse tithes and paid his church back every penny they ever paid him is pretty impressive. He also is trying to figure out why Saddleback works much better for 40 yr olds than 20 year olds. His comments in Dan Kimball’s book a few years ago were insiteful.
I know this sounds simplistic, but I can’t help but wonder…if the church began evangelizing and ministering more like Paul, perhaps we would be winning more souls.
K Cagle – I urge you to submerse yourself in prayer and submit your soul to the Lord completely, and then re-read Paul. I, too, felt exactly the way you say you feel about Paul. Then the Lord brought me to the knowledge that Paul was neither of those things. Paul must be read with more maturity, and with a great understanding of the culture in which he preached and the social norms of the day.
Paul was very much about love – Christian love and exhortation. Read his letters to the churches; he continually encourages them in love to be diligent in expressing Christ through love and actions toward nonbelievers and each other alike. He was NOT anti-women. I used to believe he was a mysogynist, but I found after studying the cultures to which he was speaking, he was no such thing. He praises the women in the Christian churches who were actively practicing Christ’s love and sacrifice as equals and as tremendous members and assets to the church.
I pray you will be willing to have these things revealed to you, because your children not going to church has nothing to do with Paul’s so-called judgmental teachings nor ultra-conservative churches. Rather, your own judgmental attitude toward tearing down one of the greatest disciples of Christ and your self-righteous criticism of him have obviously greatly negatively influenced them, and they make their own decision not to go to church. That can’t be blamed on anyone else but themselves.
God’s love is abundant and His mercy is infinite. But He is also a jealous and righteous God. The entire Bible is His word, not just the mushy, warm and fuzzy parts. God would not have allowed Paul to continue in his ministry if he were not following the direction and leading of the Holy Spirit.
Go ahead and get mad at me all you like. As I have said in the past, the truth is not popular. But I do pray that you will allow the Holy Spirit to reveal these things to you, because otherwise you are separating yourself from the very Christ you say you love, speaking judgmentally and falsely about a man that the resurrected Christ Himself called to be the witness of the Gospel to the Gentiles. Remember, the things of God are foolishness to unbelievers (unreasonable, nonsensical, argumentative and contradictory, a stumbling block), but to the true believers, it is the very stuff of life and salvation.
Thank you, Amy. I too am an appreciator of Paul…and the rest of the canon.
Very interesting read, and I also loved reading all the comments from people. Thank you!
I am an organist for a rather large Methodist Church. I also direct a youth handbell Choir…I love the kids and we have a great time ! They not only enjoy playing for church, but they also enjoy hearing the organ. I think so many churches today are just teaching youth to appreciate Contemporary Music, and I find that many of them don’t like it. I have had many youth tell me they don’t feel they have been to church until they hear me play the organ, and are in a traditional sanctuary setting. don’t get me wrong, I know there is a need for contemporary Worship, but there is also a need with Traditional Worship……it is the worship a lot of us grew up on..with an organ, choir etc. We are a growing Methodist Church because we offer all these things..Traditional and Contemporary worship. The kids love being part of all of it ! I think sometimes people just associate modern worship or Contemporary with young people, and this is not the case….at least not where I am. A bigger problem is that sports has taken over so many evenings that used to be focused on church …for example……when I first started my position at the church ten years ago, we had Wednesday Night activities which included adult ministries and youth. This also included a family night supper……there were folks lined up and down the hallway for this..it was great…this has changed,, and mostly because sports started interfering with the schedule on Wednesday nights……so now most things are done on Sunday evenings , which isn’t a bad thing except many Sundays my rehearsal gets canceled due to sports on Sunday !
I think a large part of the youth activities in church has to start at home. Parents need to set more priorities about going to church before sports etc. I grew up in a home that you did church before and above anything else. Families need to get back to this…they need to eat together again, pray together again ….make the texting second or third place, and get back to some values. Youth just want to feel needed and loved. If we give them opportunities in all places of worship in church, they love it. I stress at my rehearsals with the youth all the time….we plan music and practice…not to perform, but to be part of worship……the focus is on God. The experience I have with them is wonderful……they bring great joy, and I am always so very proud when they play in church.
Ronn, Sounds like a great church. Where are you at? If I am around your neck of the woods I want to come visit.
I wholeheartedly agree with your point about families prioritizing church over sports (or other activities for that matter). We live in SC and the communities here are more Christian ‘friendly,’ meaning some organizations intentionally do not schedule events on Wednesday nights. This said, the trend is going the other way. Parents have to set priorities for their children and show faithfulness and loyalty first to Church and Church family members.
I do have a question for Mr. Mattarino; what about the fact that though many youth leave they may come back after living outside the church for a time? After a season of maturing?
Good vocal thoughts in this article, thank you!
Hi Jenny,
In SC you will most likely have less of this than folks outside the Bible belt. The data seems to indicate that many will not come back. Like everything else, there are a lot of factors at play: home, family, church, life, proximity to home, larger cultural shifts.
Would it be helpful to post a bunch of links to data?
AMEN Ronn, you said it better than I have ever heard. Our children aren’t leaving church because of Paul or any other Biblical person in the Bible. Our children are leaving church because the parents are losing interest In their children’s salvation, it’s not a priority to them. They force them to go to school because school is demanded by the government, they should also demand they go to church because God demands it. If the parents don’t go to church or support the idea of church then the kids will walk away. Our children can learn from Paul and his experiences and by the laws that God has put down in His word. I encourage all parents to start going to church with their children and insist they take part in the church activities. Sports and school activities should come last and God first.
Your points are very well taken. Thanks for adding your voice to this most vital conversation.
Blessings, Irvin
Thanks, Irvin. Blessings returned.
This author reminds me of chicken little. The church is going to prevail in spite of empty old buildings and startling dips in attendance. The mega-church age has some bitter-sweet by-products, but this author is just a disheartened hospital chaplain. I’ve had many of the same thoughts and feelings, but many of these conclusions he has drawn are wrong in my opinion. There is no way to permanently kill a movement that is grounded in the resurrection. That’s what is so cool about Christianity.
Hello Mark, I agree with you that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. But the church will certainly be a much different beast in 30 years as the check-writers age out and the missing 25 year olds become 55 and the 85 year olds are wondering who is going to keep the doors open.
For the record, I am a 30 year youth minister who did a 6 month stint of chaplain work as part of my re-ordination process.
I may be dead wrong in all of my conclusions. But the data is not mine, Mark. It is corroborated and from multiple sources. Literally no single religious researcher argues that there is a sea-change occurring. The question is what should the Church do about it? Saying “the gates of hell will not prevail so move along here, there is nothing to see” seems pretty irresponsible for leadership. If someone in any other institution failed to monitor and adjust they would be fired for incompetence.
It sounds like there isn’t a true conversion taking place in those that are leaving the church. People need to be taught how to be truly converted, that is to come unto Christ. To be converted is to have a change take place in your heart. One will desire to serve God and give up his or her sins. You cannot serve God only on Sundays and then do as you wish during the week. Being a disciple for Christ is a life long commitment, a lifestyle.
Also, I think people, especially us younger people (I am 25), need to feel that if they make a mistake, they are not going to be judged and cast out. Christ spent His whole life helping people repent and have a true conversion, that is to give up their sins. Once we have God’s love in our life, we have to emulate that love and share it with others. To do that we cannot be judgmental or condescending towards others who have made mistakes or are struggling. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) To be a Christian is to let Christ’s sacrifice for us cleanse us of our sins and then share the joy that we have with others.
In short, there is a lack of true love towards our fellow man (or woman) and a lack of true conversion.
Hi Jr. I suspect in some cases with those who left there was not a true conversion. I suspect in some cases there was not a true discipleship. I know without a doubt that in many cases we did not give them a true spirituality and tools to walk with God. Many, many of your peers say, “I love God, I follow Jesus. I just cannot do church.” At some point we should really listen to this. Not kow-tow or pander, but honestly listen.
Many have said here that they left because they didn’t see a real love. That to me is profoundly sad.
Matt
I didn’t leave the church because I thought the “cool” factor was offputting. I left the church because the church, both the ‘grown up’ services and the ‘for students’ services, were not effective in promoting spiritual growth. Growth is a personal thing, and spirituality is accessible through many other pathways than the cultural, Jesus-centric one of my upbringing. I wish I had known that sooner; I would have left much earlier.
And ps. – putting a cultural stamp on spirituality is also a death blow. The spiritual is not the cultural; you can’t ascribe rules for ways of life and hope and wring your hands and pray that people will decide to stick with it. That’s a horrible way to run a church, and it’s a horrible way to run a religion. Real love is not concerned with how many people fill its pews; it’s too busy loving.
Hi Kaeli,
Excellent thoughts. Churches failure to promote spirituality and fear basing are a pretty weaksauce way to be church. Thanks for sharing.
“The spiritual is not the cultural;”
And yet, in order to reach those who are unchurched, how else will you grab their attention. Don’t forget 1 Corinthians 9:20-23:
“When I am with the Jews, I live like a Jew to win Jews. They are ruled by the Law of Moses, and I am not. But I live by the Law to win them. And when I am with people who are not ruled by the Law, I forget about the Law to win them. Of course, I never really forget about the law of God. In fact, I am ruled by the law of Christ. When I am with people whose faith is weak, I live as they do to win them. I do everything I can to win everyone I possibly can. I do all this for the good news, because I want to share in its blessings.” (Contemporary English Version)
I grew up in a very old fashioned city. There aren’t any churches that currently provide exactly what I am looking for in a service. I’ve chosen one that suits me okay, but there are times when I squirm a little. If it hadn’t been for the internet, and being able to discover modern Christian music (metal, punk, etc.) I would not be where I am now spiritually had it not been for this discovery, and that’s spirituality within current cultural context.
Thank you for sharing, Adam. “Cultural” is not bad. Culture can be good, bad or neither. The question is how much culture to bring into the sanctuary for this next generation, for whom the culture seems to be changing. I blogged about this in: https://thegospelside.com/2012/10/11/why-the-big-box-church-works-for-the-over-35-but-not-the-under-25/
I am glad you have a church AND the internet!
Thanks for your pinpoint observations, Matt. Are you recommending that younger Sunday School programs be abolished to keep a family-cenrtric theme at a church? It might seem more effective in teaching them at their level.
Ryan
reblogged at faithandfootball.net
Hi Ryan,
I’m not going that far.overall I’m really asking the church to: 1)equip parents 2) partner ecumenically with other Chistians in evangelizing youth in their world 3) using the youth program to disciple kids 4) help them to serve and share their faith in the world 5) be involved in the main sanctuary when the whole church is together for worship. I am NOT advocating getting rid of age appropriate grouping, just not doing it during worship.
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The Orthodox Church has their children with them in worship from day one. You will see people of all ages. If you want to worship like Christians did in the first 3 centuries, then go to the church that still worships that way.
Hi Michael, Thank you for bringing the voice of Orthodoxy. I have had a fairly large number of your brethren comment on my blog. I will tell you what I tell them: Orthodoxy has much to recommend it. I have been blessed when worshipping with you.
I see your point but I don’t know that I agree with it entirely because it is very sweeping. It is always nice to find a few specific reasons for issues (spiritual or otherwise) and say that those are the reasons why a failing is occurring. But generalizations can be very limiting. They can also blind us not only to other factors in play but also to exceptions. I’m sure you are aware of this.
Here are some reasons I personally have seen/dealt with (and still am to an extent), etc. as a younger person of faith (early 30’s):
1) Hypocrisy of those who are lifted up as leaders of the faith
2) The notion of building churches based on the leadership of one man so that everything depends on one overworked soul with limited availability for differences in less critical issues of faith.
3) The teaching of tradition and rituals as a necessity for a “proper” Christian walk. And I am referring to protestants here, not Catholics. I think there are many things Christians teach and put forth as “must do’s” that are actually rituals (routines if you like) and are not actually requirements of God. Along the lines of some of the early Jewish Christians telling Gentile converts to Christianity that they had to become circumcised and follow Old Testament dietary laws.
4) The tendency to believe that everyone’s expression of faith has to look the same, be the same.
These are just a few and do not apply to everyone. More I think though that I struggle with currently as I am trying to press into Jesus is the pressure and what not that I receive when I question church teaching. When I question and try to learn what I believe about an issue and what God and the Bible says about it, sometimes it feels as though many Christians feel threatened by that. That somehow by daring to ask and seek for myself, even if I may come out the other side believing the same way on an issue, I am falling away from faith/my soul is in jeopardy/etc. Somehow the asking of the questions “Why?” and “Is that actually what God said?” is dangerous. And frankly I have gotten some responses by members of the body of Christ that do not make me feel secure in seeking around them. This is sad.
I think you can have “mega-churches” and/or contemporary churches that are great for promoting growth and service in Christ and some that aren’t. I also think you can have smaller and/or “traditional” churches that are great for promoting growth and service in Christ and some that aren’t.promoting growth and service in Christ and some that aren’t. So much has to be looked at case-by-case.
I don’t know, perhaps we are too focused on finding reasons/failings in the church, in the body of Christ when we should be focused on each ourselves drawing as close to God as we can, supporting others in drawing as close to God as they can, in the way that God has called them, according to way that God individually created us. And as we all become more like Christ the more positive change we will see in the body.
They say that in leadership the best way to help others grow is to focus on helping develop strengths. Are we doing that as a body? Or are we so focused on finding a reason to point to that we waste time that could be spent in fostering growth? In much in life what we focus on has a tendency to be what grows. What are we focused on?
I am glad for your article. It seems like you have a good heart and are genuine. I just figured I would share what has been on my mind of late before I saw it.
God bless.
Hi Kaley, You make great points. Thank you for your comments. Your points 1-4 are terrific. And surely drawing close to God and helping others is a better way forward than nitpicking. I was responding to questions from friends. The traffic the post has generated has been a thorough surprise. I have written other things I thought would generate more interest that have received almost none. This was really a summary of a seminar I did for an Urban Youth Worker’s Institute training Day on why kids weren’t sticking with their churches. It was a really interesting day. The over 30 youth pastors were almost throwing things at me. The under 30 were standing and “Amen”ing the ideas.
Thanks again for your comments. Insightful and wise.
These big box churches come across as, frankly, soulless. Church should be a place apart from the craziness of our daily lives where we can let go of worldly concerns and focus on our personal relationship with God. It shouldn’t look, sound, or feel like a nightclub. Teens grow up and realize that rock-n-roll karaoke church is ultimately spiritually bereft.
Hi Penny, You write really, really clearly. Personally, I got to a point where I had difficulty mustering the energy to get up on a Sunday morning, but millions are blessed by these. p.s. You should blog.
Big church just needs the fire of God ! Not sitting and being fed and fed and getting fat. Shepherd your flock Pastors its all about outside the church. I’m visual and need illustration.Put a youth pastor as senior pastor and I bet your churches will come alive!!Never water the word or worry about numbers or $,thats Gods job!!!That college age and older will come back . You must train them and let them serve our Lord. Mentor!!!
Hi Kay, Actually, most “big-box” churches are pastored by former youth pastors. Go down the list of the 20 largest churches in the country. Most cut their teeth in youth ministry and the 10% metric (that the youth group should be 1/10 of the size of the rest of the church). Sr. pastors do worry about numbers. Deeply. The 10% metric they were trained with set that. The fire of God? Absolutely. Mentors? Good. Training? Also good. Serving? Awesome!
Can’t say as I agree here.
My personal belief is that preaching it is the surest way of turning people off to any religious message. Live it… love others… and then? LET THEM CHOOSE FOR THEMSELVES.
You can restyle your church a thousand different ways. Unless people are drawn in because they feel the love? It won’t matter what your packaging is.
I ID as Christian. My daughter does not. I love her anyway. I don’t push my path on her. I trust God to work it out.
Hi Selkie, Love is good. Giving your daughter room is also good. Living our faith: awesome. Trusting God? Ditto. One question though: How can they choose if no one gives them the message?
Belivers are the church. do you expect to come to a church building and expect a once a week shot in the arm? No thats not how it works. When your child was born did you pray for their needs.? Did you pray at the table giving thanks ,asking God for help through the day, for health, some one to help, thank him for your home , job . Did you ask Him to give you someone to talk to about their need fo salvation? As your child grew up did you teach them to pray, and pray with them? If you are a true believer you are the church at home. You teach the importance of what God is to your children. Do you read from the bible or read some daily calenders. These things are the parents responsibility so your child knows why you take him to church. I believe we should never stop praying for our chidren and their children. God is not an hour aweek at church, It begins in our home ever moment of everday.What our children see is what they believe.that doesnt mean that each child will follow HIM. When we can say we’ve done our best God will take care of the rest.
Well put Ralph. We have to equip fathers to disciple their own children
Amen, Brian!
Amen,
I’m not sure it matters what a church’s worship service looks like as long as it isn’t sinful and people are worshiping God.
It’s nice to know sometimes how the early church conducted itself, but at the same time the early church wasn’t perfect. They made mistakes. Who’s to say that telling unbelievers to get out of the service before communion wasn’t one of those mistakes? I don’t see anything in the Bible commanding such.
In 1 Corinthians 9, Paul is open about how he goes about sharing the Gospel. He says, “To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.”
It seems to me that Paul is advocating becoming steeped in culture, so long as it is not sinful, to be as relevant as possible to the unbeliever. Cool lights aren’t sinful. Fun games aren’t sinful.
Is it possible to attract people to the Church and fail to disciple them effectively? Of course! I believe we are seeing the effects of that in the statistics you shared. But it’s merely an attempt at mind-reading to assume we know the cause of this exodus. I would also be interested to know if those stats only account for seeker-friendly churches or all the churches in America? I’m pretty sure when I was reading about them that it was fairly generic to America as a whole.
I do think you did hit the nail on the head in your next to last paragraph; not the communion thing, the serving thing. When the Church is acting as the healing, serving Body of Christ that it was meant to be; then people understand that this isn’t just a joke or a Sunday high. When we challenge those in the pews (or box seats) to live out their professed faith in service and evangelism, we see growth that ignites a fire. When the Church goes out to the lost as we’re supposed to, people come to Christ.
Hi Kyle,
Thanks for adding your thoughts. I completely agree with your last paragraph (but then, you are agreeing with me, so, of course I do.) I also am an evangelist by wiring, training and vocation. I completely agree with cultural accommodation to bring the Good News to people. My argument is that the “relevant” movement makes Sunday morning an evangelism experience rather than the church gathered for worship, word, sacrament and sending (acts 2:42). If we do that, we professionalize the Gospel, immobilize the people of God and leave the body without it’s natural place of discipleship.
Serve and share is fabulous…it is the ministry model Jesus gave the disciples at the feeding of the 5000.
Cool. Thanks for the quick reply.
Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on churches like The Journey in New York? I’m not terribly familiar with their practices, but I think they try to use Sunday mornings as an evangelism tool all the way from greeters to signs.
Hi Kyle, I don’t know anything about Journey. Greeters and signs and websites are good. Someone has to find you to worship. My concerns is the come vs go and the desperation of it all. I just actually posted on that today.
Preach on, Mattarino. You codified and verbalized so much that many friends and I have been bemoaning for several yrs. Sometimes I think we must be fuddy-duddies, but we’re otherwise rational, wise, with-it, committed Christians. SO glad to read your insights. We must DO something. I’m a recently retired career church musician, now playing in a praise band and sadly watching the church dumb down and grow more and more impotent.
Rev. Dale, I feel the same way. You saw it from the orchestra pit (or perhaps choir loft or stage). I saw it in the youth room. For years it became harder and harder to bring new Christians and plug them into the church because I saw how they were being entertained in the attempt to re-evangelize the evangelized. Where once the youth pastor had kids in 4 days of discipleship a week, they were spending all of their time doing powerpoint and refilling the fog machine.
I was was watching ( actually, I wasn’t watching it, it was just on the TV) Hillsong Sydney on Sunday, and my 10 year old asked what it was. I told him that it was church sermon. He stared at the screen for a moment- the lights, the pep- rally rah rah and the flash. He said ‘That doesn’t look like church. I don’t really think that god would like that’.
I told him that Im not sure what God would think, but I certainly wasn’t a fan of it 🙂
Hi Eva, I sure like Hillsong music, but the wiz-bang isn’t my thing. I am actually a proponent of mixing genres. I think contemporary music is great. So are hymns, taize, Black Gospel, and Mariachis. I think this is getting such a wide readership among young adults because many have a sense that church could include awe and transcendence as well, creating space for God to move through quiet as well as noise.
Yes, the balance is important. Thanks for the reply 🙂
Hello, my name is Michelle, and I’m an alcoholic. I belong to a ever growing fellowship that have been blessed with a second life and a God given design for living that does not discriminate regardless of age, sex, sexual preference, culture, color, upper-class, middle-class, poverty struck, criminals, doctors, fast-food workers, lawyers, store clerks, mothers, children, preachers, ministers, factory workers, football heros, young or old; the list could go on forever because everyone is welcome. Everyone that walks through the door will know in their heart that we love them unconditionally and they are always welcome. We have a great deal in common, and our differences do not prevail because we all share the same goals. We have a common solution on which we all can agree. This group, known as Alcoholics Anonymous, gather together and share the lessons learned, and help each other grow towards spiritual progress, not spiritual perfection.
This group has taught me how to love others, and myself; to forgive others, and myself; to turn the other cheek in the name of Jesus, in spite of myself; to help when I can, and not just when I prefer; to be a humble servant, and not judge anyone else, but to stay focused on my actions and the motives behind them. To share my blessings with others, and continue to offer myself to God so his blessings will flow thru me to those less fortunate.
My church does not advertise, or send invitations, but when people see the wonderful changes God’s made in my life, they want know how I got to be so blessed and they are eager to participate in whatever it is that I did, so they can do it too. My relationship with God carries me anywhere I need to go without fear or hesitation. I know nothing will harm me when I do God’s will. Even when I feel bad, I feel good because I trust that there’s something good that will come out of the pain, and I have faith that it will make a better servant of me in the future.
Our AA Family does not solicit newcomers, advertise, or send invitations; and we continue to grow bigger and bigger all the time. So, if the Church would provide people with needs, and not worry about catering to peoples wants; the value of their offerings would rise beyond anything they could ever dream…. When people quit trying to do what they want, when they want, and chose who they want to include, then God can start doing what he wants, when he wants, and chose to include everyone. I believe he has way better plans for me and and my church than I could ever imagine, and if I can get out of the way, he just might allow me to witness his miracles and celebrate his love.
Hi Michelle,
Thank you for sharing of the power of AA. Part of AA’s strength as you describe it is the way it’s clarity of purpose (support for people who want to live a life without alcohol) and it’s clarity about it’s core values (non-judgment, welcome, listening, space, sponsors, etc). The segregated and relevant model I am critiquing seems to me to be clear about it’s purpose (make more Christians) but, oftentimes, lacking clarity of core values. So you see churches that will do anything to get a crowd (put an octagon on stage, play secular music, do lotteries and give prizes). These are all things that a pastor would have learned when they were a youth pastor, by the way. Ken Moser of Briercliff College uses an expression: “What you win them with, you win them to.” Perhaps if we were more careful with what we win them with, they would be won to something more rooted, supportive, less fearful, and more loving.
Amen. I once had a drinking problem too. I couldn’t bring myself to work the program mainly because the AA I went to taught that your higher power could be anything…That was the kind of lie that leads to death! I’m not sure I would have come to the same conclusions as you did the way they were teaching AA. I am glad you are finding your way. He draws near to those that seek him.
I believe that alcoholism is a sin problem. Praise God we are not powerless over sin. Nature/nurture? It doesn’t matter!
You might have loved the Samson Society, it is a Jesus centered 4 step program.
I don’t know how many step program God made for me but I love Him and continue to seek him. Praise God from whom all blessings flow!
Blessings to you Matt.
I was raised in a mainstream Baptist church and went to Christian private school for part of my primary education. I left for a while in my 20’s then came back to a methodist church down the street. They brought in a female preacher. Unbiblical so I left. I went to a independant baptist church that happened to split from the church I grew up in. This is where I confronted the great inconsistency of pro war/pro life. Its also where i met my wife. So then I lead my bride in the search for a church that believed it was only ok to love in EVERY situation. We have been blessed in the Anabaptists circles since. I think we will be staying here. I cant imagine leaving them.
They have a plural ministry. And it is unpaid. In other words there are more than one preacher and they don’t exercise their right to wages. They work for free so they hold a regular job in addition to preaching. They also do not send any of their men off to seminary. basically they are elected by the congregation though guidance of Spirit and then they rise through the ranks when the eldest minister dies. In other words they serve their whole life with the same flock. And the young men are trained by their Dads.
These churches certainly are not perfect. They face the same problems any other church faces.
There are many false teachings. Ask and you shall receive. He will give you what you need. Test the spirits. Do not accept convoluted doctrine. If it does not make sense to you it may not make sense to the one teaching it to you. Read your bible. Don’t forget to continually test your own spirit!
Love God
Love Neighbor.
If you don’t love your neighbor (your worst enemy is still your neighbor even if he lives in a middle eastern desert) then you don’t love God.
The ends never justify the means.
You can’t do evil in the name of good.
I totally agree with your evaluation. I found myself attending a church that held 4 services on Sunday, 3 on Saturday’s and 1 on wednesday with as little as 15 minutes of the Word. I went there for a good while, then i realized I was empty on the inside, starving to hear the love of God, the truth. Same church as you’re talking of, coffee, donuts,pizza, and much more. The pastor had people watching me,following me, he didn’t like people who prayed for others in the foyer evidently and I began to sense this, because it always got back to him when I did. Finally, one day while I sat in the foyer, he came over and said. “Bob, there’s no such thing as the Holy Spirit and there’s nobody ever been healed since Jesus Christ was hung on the cross.So he had a reason he founded and pastored this church, and it was, the way it was today. I just replied to him….Pastor READ, believe and do this bible, that it is from God and you will find Him. i went back to what I was taught from the beginning and yes I know for sure you are seeing the same as I am seeing today. Thanks for bringing this to light. Bob
A Christian pastor didn’t believe in the Holy Spirit? Odd. Thanks for sharing. I would suspect you are happier at your new church.
The photo above, of the nightclub, might have been taken at our former church. The multicolored LED lights came in last year with a lead singer who was a rock star wannabe. Last month roving mini-searchlights were added with a fog machine. Last week they added flashing lights. Note I said “they.” I would normally say “we” but I stopped attending. Ironically, they did all of this to attract the unchurched, and made me unchurched in turn. Note also that the older members they are driving away are the people with large disposable incomes who more than tithe. The local rescue mission now gets my check every month, and I’m sure they will put the money to better use.
Hi Bruce,
I am sure the rescue mission is a good place to give. Sometimes our best intentions are just wrong. It may even grow…but weeds grow. The question for me is, will it sustain faith? The data suggests that the model doesn’t. There is a 10 year old church in Phoenix that has 5500, mostly young adults attending. They draw lots of young people from miles around to their 6 campuses because the six pastors do thoughtful, intelligent 45 minute expository sermons. It is a different model. My gut tells me it will have different outcomes.
Matt,
Interesting article thought I disagree on many of your points. I wrote a rebuttal article one of my sites. http://prodigaliam.blogspot.com/2013/08/response-to-whats-so-uncool-about-cool.html
Hi Joel, disagreement is the highest form of flattery. I am looking forward to reading your rebuttal. All for the kingdom!
Having been added to the church of Christ, I think you hit the nail on the head with bigger being synonymous with stronger. The Passover feast, a shadow of the Communion in which we memorialize our Savior, was designed to be partaken of by one family. It was designed to be a small congregating, and I submit to you that the Communion today is designed to follow that same pattern. It’s impossible to share a Communion service done in spirit and truth (see 1 Corinthians 11: 23-29 for details) in a mega-church of 10,000 people every Sunday. I appreciate your viewpoints here. Thanks for writing them. 🙂
Thanks, Micha. Blessings.
I grew up sitting in the pews of a small church trying to be good (got a few long nail marks in my upper arm – lol), singing archaic hymns I had no clue about & listening to sermons above my head. Then moved to a large church with an active “youth program” when I was in HS. I “dropped” church in college when I was on my own. I was just “too busy” & rarely had accountability. I found the denom, I grew up in to be constricting/legalistic. I don’t have regrets going to a Christian college but there were some legalistic rules, like no dancing that bothered me. Jewish people dance all the time at celebrations. I knew several classmates who got fake IDs so they could go dance at the clubs & got caught. In my teens/20s, I no clue what my purpose on earth was. Why the heck was I here?
In spite of all that, I still clung to the little bit of faith I had during those years & got married to a man with strong faith. I still struggle with my faith & have added depression & anxiety to the mix. It’s my little badge of shame that I carry that only few know about. I know our youth of today are also struggling. Do you have any good resources?
As a Mom of teens, I am very thankful for the kids/youth programs. I believe they have a place in the church, even if it is concurrent with adult service. The church we attend does not water down the gospel nor are they P.C.. Sunday youth program music is led by youth musicians which I think is great. They also have Wed nite youth groups as well & several serving opportunities throughout the yr. I know my teens are welcome in the adult service, but the sermon is really jam packed with info & geared for adults. What I think would be awesome is if we could somehow take the same message from the adult service & “youth it up” for the MS/HS to teach more at their level. Then the family could talk about what they learned together. Right now, the kids could easily say “I don’t know”.
The last church we attended was feeling more like a “performance” & less like what I would call worship – both youth & adult. Something like what you mentioned in your article. I can’t worship in that atmosphere, but believe it’s still working for others.
Hi Dee, It sounds as if you are doing a stellar job of fighting for your faith, and that you have found a solid church for your family (not a perfect one, of course, those don’t exist.). I am with you in desiring that kids and parents study the same passages in church. Churches following the Revised Common Lectionary typically do just that. It is a system in which a 3 year cycle of Old Testament, New Testament and Gospel passages are read.
I wish I had better resources for anxiety and depression for you. The standard is a therapist you connect with (you might have to try several) and a doctor. Those would be the place I would start. There might also be support groups in your area.
We are all on our own journeys, Dee. Clinging to a faith you struggle with is heroic, not an object of shame. (Mother Theresa also had mighty doubts!) There is no shame in depression and anxiety. All three are difficult burdens to bear. Please don’t go down those roads alone.
Hang in there. You will be in my prayers.
Your article left me thinking….and that’s good. 🙂 Was just blabbering about my experience…eventually come back to the church, but with different expectations. Guess you could say that I matured a bit. I think young adults need time to sort things out away from their parents. It’s a tough world today with every type of viewpoint etc at our kids fingertips.
After watching “To Save a Life” recently, your article makes more sense. It took a new convert who really “got it” to stir up the status quo in the youth group.
Thanks for the encouragement & prayers.
Thanks for this excellent and informative article.
🙂
I know not all but many that I know, have left due to how the “church” as a whole is just not lining up with the very Hebrew scriptures that Jesus/Yeshua said they were to be discipled by. I, and many other, may have left the churches but we have not left the body. We gather in home groups and some of us have gotten involved at Messianic Synagogues or Sabbath keeping churches. We want the whole word not a buffet like has been taught for way too long. We want the old paths of righteousness, which is surely what our Father wants for us. Others commenting have mentioned that some who have left did not have a heart change. I agree. But now it is up to them to listen to His voice while seeing all of us believers love and walk in our Messiah’s footsteps.
Hi Jonathan, Thanks for your comment. Someone took me to task that it is better to be “relevant” than “irrelevant”. My response is that the opposite of relevant (like another thing) is actually “transcendent” (unlike another thing)…older, more ancient, more strenuous. You, the RC, Orthodox and Anglican commenters seem to be trying to share a secret sauce with us.
Don’t get the “secret sauce” comment. My comment was basically stating my experience and numerous others I have come in contact with, who left the buildings that folks call churches. I like the article due to it’s informing the body of lack of numbers at churches and hope that our comments are equally appreciated as they give more insight on why. My personal experience being just what was stated; believers fed up with watered down christianity, i.e. contrary living and teachings toward His word.
Hi Jonanthan,
Sorry if I came across as dissing your comment. I tried to go back and look for it, but the comments are a bit unwieldy at this point and I couldn’t find it. I do agree with your summary, although I would guess that for many the order would be different: Not living it first, then weak teaching. Have a great week in Christ.
Ditch Paul or more Paul?!? If you look at Paul’s ministry, especially when it came to evangelism and reaching out with the gospel to different groups and cultures he clearly adapted his approach depending on his audience. As a church that seeks to continue to reach the current and next generation it is imperative that we are adaptive in our approach to how we ‘do church’. The message is the same, we must preach Christ crucified, and make it clear that being a Christian requires us to take up our cross and follow him!
Just as missionaries were required to learn, understand, and embrace different cultures as they took the gospel to the ‘ends of the earth’, we too need this approach today in the ‘west’. We live in as much a cross-cultural mission field today and this is why we must look to understand those that we seek to reach, serve, and disciple. if this means a change in the structure of a service, praise time, or age-orientated ministries then we must try, or else we will fail to hold on to this ‘next generation’.
Amen!
great discussion going on here.
Good thoughts,..I remember my Mother saying that our churches need to stop trying to ‘keep up with the Jones’ and seek HIS face on how to be the bride!
Another thought as I parent my 8 children who to struggle to work out their salvation with fear and trembling it really is true that what you win them with you win them to
Amen!
AMEN
Good thoughts,..I remember my Mother saying that our churches need to stop trying to ‘keep up with the Jones’ and seek HIS face on how to be the bride!
Another thought as I parent my 8 children who struggle to work out their salvation with fear and trembling it really is true that what you win them with, you win them to. I have worked with children many years and I observe the child who has all the world given to them from disneyworld to the latest and best toys, private lessons ,customized nurseries..they become overwhelmed and many times apathetic or just plain exhausted. The church can’t expend its energy trying to keep up! We can’t be like a mega church if we live in mall rural towns.
When we compartmentalize our youth and children we cease to have the whole body or family together at the mealtime ( worship)and the youth and adults miss out on the need for the body. We all learn from each other, discipleship happens when my 10 and 12 year olds help Mrs Luna (93), plant flowers at church and go out to lunch afterwards with her!
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In the sixties, they said God is dead. The youth fled the church in droves. I was one of them. But all the prophets of doom were wrong. God is not dead. He is alive and well and his church will prevail. He raised up the Jesus Movement in the seventies to reach the alienated young people like me. Millions of young people came to Jesus during that time. I still serve the church with many of those young people who are now near retirement age and still love Jesus. Your thoughts are good and a needed word, but God’s church will prevail whether it is through historic traditional churches, mega-churches or even house churches in the cul-de-sac.
Hi Gregory, I am sure “the gates of hell will not prevail.” It is harder to see where they will go today, however. In that generation we could see that they fled the Mainline for the Evangelical church. That was a comfort. Now they are leaving for Starbucks.
Most of the people I was associated with were either unbelievers or part of evangelical churches before they left the sixties church. They were leaving for Haight-Asbury or communes. The Jesus Movement benefited evangelicals because they actually took time to reach out to the new believers on the street. The Calvary Chapel churches are a good example of a local church that cultivated young people who had met Jesus on the beaches of California. Evangelists like Arthur Blessitt took the cross to the streets and worked with kids on drugs and disillusioned with the war. The converts formed coffee houses and Christian communes before aging and moving into the local churches. Hardly and movement from Mainline to Evangelical. That was rare. Again, the people leaving for Starbucks today are the ones who will end up in new expressions of church that the Holy Spirit will raise up.
That is interesting. I do know a bunch of Mainliners who came to personal faith through the Jesus movement or through churches Jesus movement people started. I am excited to see what “Fresh Expressions” might look like. Locally we have some very exciting things that are very different from one another: Some really powerful Hip/Hop stuff, our discipleship camp (blends Hip/Hop, chant, Gospel, contemporary). It is pretty unique with times of energy and then ancient and contemplative stuff. In AZ there are some churches coming together around mission (one mega church remade itself around service), some around really in-depth Bible teaching. There is a local young adult thing (PhxOne) that is like a fusion of a hipster church and a liturgical one that works on connecting people back to their home churches and into mission.
It will be fun to watch.
I would pose that youth ministry, as it has grown into today, is converting students to a “style” of worship and not the Person (Jesus) of worship; activities geared towards fun and not missions; places of “safety” (the Christian bubble) and not places of opportunity (where something’s at risk for you to show and share your faith). In short, I see us winning them to a “lifestyle” and not a Savior, and once they graduate out of the youth ministry they realize what they participated in had no real (eternal) benefit to them or anyone they care about. At that point the “smoke & mirrors” of modern youth ministry are revealed. Win them to THE Savior, raise them in scripture, send them in missions, and teach/show how them to repeat it in those around them.
I have read your article. I agree with you. And I am frightened at the same time. As a father of four children, the oldest just now entering Jr. High I greatly fear that they will grow up and abandon the Christian faith. After all the world is increasingly anti Christian and Pro anything else that I know it will be just easier to not believe.
However, I would like to see an article that points out the opposite of your point of view.
Thank you for this important piece that you have written.
I love your honesty! Live not in fear, Christian. Speak of your love for God often with your kids. Read the Bible with them (or if they won’t with you, let them see you doing the things Christians have loved for 2000 years), serve with them, surround them with safe, healthy adults and a peer group in which “iron sharpens iron,” talk and process life, and they should be ok. I have a college student and a junior in high school. They both love Jesus, walk with God, serve others and are involved in church and age-appropriate peer groups. They will tell you that they aren’t angels…but they are sinners enjoying the goodness of God and in communities of people who seek and share God with others.
My biggest encouragement to parents is not to live in fear. Enjoy your time with your kids. They go away to college really quickly. Be a parent and draw boundaries. Surround them with love, solid people, good memories, and let them see the power of God at work in your life, in your church and in the world both near and far. Then life is Eucharist (thanksgiving). It can be very scary to be a parent. I am a parent-fail in a thousand ways, but gratitude and joy beat fear and over-protection. Life is too short.
You can’t force your kids to believe in the easter bunny, just like you can’t force them to believe in an equally fictional character.
?
Even more than the cool or uncool of church, people are leaving the church because of the sexual revolution of the 70’s. They choose sexual sin and thereby turn their hearts away from God. Their eyes are blinded to the facts of Creation and they believe the lie of evolution. They ask dumb questions like, “Who made God?” They see miracles happen right before their eyes and they’re blind to it. And when your head can’t make sense of your religion, you leave. I think Ken Ham picked out the real issues in Already Gone.
Perhaps. I do know hundreds of people who love God, love the Scriptures, walk in holiness of life and yet, believe God used evolution as a mechanism of Creation. Just sayin’.
I wonder how many came to the church because the sexual revolution promised a freedom it didn’t deliver. I know lots of those as well.
I know my post was a siren in the night, but in the long view, God seems to find a way to bring his children home.
A thought-provoking article, so here are some of my provoked thoughts. 🙂 You give reasons why you think young people are leaving the church, but have you actually asked the young people why they are leaving the church? You didn’t reference any of the numerous polls and studies that ask the people who left why they left. It’s been a while since I looked at those myself, but the reasons they give are not the reasons you give. In fact, you failed to demonstrate that any of the reasons you give are actually the reasons why young people are leaving the church. Therefore, your proposed solutions may make things worse. Just because your reasons correlate with the data (e.g. fewer young people attending church) doesn’t mean the reasons are the cause of the decline.
For example, church attendance by young people in the past may have been artificially high because it was the societal expected thing to do, not because the churches of the 1800 and 1900s had a model that kept young people wanting to be in the church—you could make an argument that the number of Spirit-driven believers in the church hasn’t changed overly much in proportion to the population: Church numbers are dropping because those who were there to just pay lip-service no longer have society’s expectations forcing them to go. In this case, returning to an older model *may* drive even more young people from the church.
It would be good if you link to the studies you mention so people can look at those things themselves. Too often people have unintentionally misinterpreted a study or poll and try to make it say what they would like it to say. This is an especially strong trend in the sciences where things are easy to misinterpret if you don’t have a science background (whole websites have been set-up to correct some Christian organization’s attempts at misinterpretation). This trend, incidentally, is another of the reasons why young people say they have left the church (sometimes lumped in under “church out of touch” in some polls).
I think you could do a follow-up article, this time looking at what the young people have said. I find it slightly ironic that young people say they leave because they don’t think they’re listened to very well, and you have written an article on why young people leave yet without listening to them very well. (yes, my friends also say I’m a provocateur). 🙂
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Hi Dan,
You look good in the provocateur hat! You found the flaws in the article as posted and said them in a most well-written way. If you blog, I want to read it!
You are correct, my reasons are not the ones they give. I think that qualitative research is very good for some things. For others, not so much. You tend to find out how people feel about the way the questions were formulated.
What young adults are doing today predicted 25 years ago by Stuart Cummings Bond. I blog about it here: https://thegospelside.com/2012/10/15/life-after-cool-church-a-new-vision-for-youth-ministry-part-2/
I think there is a major cultural shift caused by 911 that also plays a big role. I do that here: https://thegospelside.com/2012/10/11/why-the-big-box-church-works-for-the-over-35-but-not-the-under-25/
So you are correct that correlation does not prove causation, and said it as well as I have ever heard it said.
Your example is also a good point. Societal expectations are certainly changing. And like a volunteer army, most of us would rather have 100 people who want to be there than 1000 who desperately don’t. 🙂
I will link the data below…and do the followup. You are correct in that I didn’t cite well in the article at all. That post was a summary of a seminar I did for the Urban Youth Worker’s Institute in 2010. In that one I had citations, in the interest of an overly long post I left them out. I had no idea the traffic this post would generate, or I would certainly have.
My whole life is spent with young adults, mostly from 19-30 (Youth ministry is really rally-er of young adults to do youth ministry. The most interesting part of the seminar was the way the 30 and up wanted to tar and feather me in the seminar and the 200 under 30 were “Amen-ing” and mobbed me afterward to thank them for articulating what they thought but didn’t know how to say about the vacuousness of much of youth ministry.
There is one other issue that I think is a glaring flaw: the title. Obviously, Christianity is not going to die because of our current (what I think is goofy) ecclesiology. But it will struggle.
Thank you for helping me correct the article’s obvious deficiencies! 🙂
Sorry, forgot the original info. By the way, the part young people liked were not the stats but the description of church as nightclub.
Seminar Slide Text:
Slide 2
Here are the chilling facts. Despite our best efforts, the church today is:
1. Losing “Market share”: Less Americans self identify as Christians than at any time in our history. Amer. Rel. id. Surv. (ARIS)
Over last 20 yrs…
-Christians: 86%-76% (Source: American Rel. Id. Survey (ARIS, 2008)
-There are now 30 million American agnostics.
-Atheists: up by nearly a million.
-America’s fastest growing belief system?
“None of the above” – From 8-14% of Americans over last decade. (Source: Pew, 2009) (http://www.americanreligionsurveyaris.org/reports/highlights.html)
Slide 3
2. Losing our “Relevance”
– 80% under 60 are “spiritual”. 2/3 pray every day. (Newsweek: Spirituality in America, Aug 2005)
-Yet actual church counts say on any given Sunday attendance is down to 20% (according to new book: “The Next Christians”)
-Conclusion: “We are spiritually hungry but looking for our spiritual life outside of the church.” (Newsweek April 13, 2009, Title: The end of Christian America.
Slide 4
3. (This is the worst part) Losing our own! They are the generation that graduated from our youth programs: In other words, Youth who grew up in the church.
Slide 5
It’s hard to feel bad when you look out and see this (photo of all-city YL)… but ask yourself what will happen to the kids in your group when they graduate from our ministries?
After investing millions and millions of dollars in youth ministry over the last 30 years, here is the result on the last group we graduated… (photo of empty church)
Slide 6:
-Losing our own.
-20-30 year olds attend church at 1/2 the rate of their parents and ¼ the rate of their grandparents. We hired thousands of youth ministry professionals and the group we were tasked with reaching left the church when they left us! We spent extravagantly and the result was that we drove young adults from our churches. Here are the numbers… http://www.pewforum.org/2010/02/17/religion-among-the-millennials/
-There are 31% fewer young adults in church today than in 1970’s (the decade after the big bailout on church…and with population soaring 60 million people.)
-61% of churched high school students graduate and never go back! (Time Magazine, 2009)
-78-88% of those in youth programs today will leave church, most to never return. (Lifeway, 2010) The research suggests that it is actually worse to have been in a youth program than to have been in a church with no youth program! Somehow what we are doing in our youth ministries is making people 50% less likely to attend church as an adult!
Other sources:
1. Lugo, Luis. “The Decline of Institutional Religion” Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. Retrieved from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/r/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2013/03/25/Editorial-Opinion/Graphics/Pew-Decline-of-Institutional-Religion.pdf Aggregated data from surveys conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, January-July 2012.
2. Brett Kunkle lists 7 research reports in 2009: http://www.conversantlife.com/theology/how-many-youth-are-leaving-the-church
I have been a youth pastor for years and I am in agreement with many of the points and ideas shared. Many things churches do today are done out of “Tradition” and have no heart or meaning in them, or they do things to be “Relevant” and have no heart or meaning to them.
I disagree with your solution. It seems you have put more thought into the problem rather than the solution. I am a product of churches being relevant, looking relevant, and finding new ways to reach and show God’s love to people. Because of this, I have been a youth pastor for years, affecting hundreds if not thousands of lives.
Jesus was so effective because he did not follow the tradition of the church, instead he brought new RELEVANT things to people. The church at that time had gotten in such a rut, that it became self serving out of tradition. Jesus brought healing, love, discipleship, and salvation. It does not get more relevant than that.
I have seen many small and mega churches doing a fantastic job with their youth, and seeing the opposite of your statistics. It doesn’t matter the size, its how its done. When you put the heart and will of God into what you do, then you will see fruit. If you put it into a program, method, music, or anything, you will see the fruit that is promised.
People so quickly forget that the “old” church in the bible, used to be the “new” church, and i got news for you my friend, if you were there in that time you would have looked at it and called it a “Big Box Church”.
You nailed the problem on the head when you said DISCIPLESHIP. I don’t care where you are, what your building looks like, what lighting you use, what programs you have, or how many people you have in your church. The key is to use any and all means at your disposal to disciple people (of all ages young to old). Discipleship is the growth that matters the most, and its what will change these statistics (which i believe are already changing).
I get your heart and i am with you in the fight for our youth 100%, but i challenge you to get out of the box a little on your solutions. You thought of every detail of the problem and then made a very general solution. In my humble opinion, that is one of the biggest problems in our churches today. Make the problem general (we are all way too familiar with the problems of this world) be detailed on practical, applicable, detailed, BIBLICAL, solutions and how we can individually/together walk them out everyday. That will change the church.
Hi Josh,
Thank you for serving in youth ministry! You obviously love Christ and want kids to know him. That article was very much a rant about some things I saw that were issues. It originally came out of a seminar I did for the Urban Youth Worker’s Institute. Because the blog post was already long I kept it to “problems”. I do propose solutions in a series of other posts.
The most interesting thing with this seminar was the audience reaction. I was the morning keynote. The seminar literally high jacked the day. The over 30 were visibly angry as I critiqued their sacred cows-things that worked for them, but were not working as well any more. The under 30 were shouting “AMEN!” “Preach, bro.” “Tell it like it is.” Afterwards, the over 30 (the seminar leaders) usurped their teaching time to disagree with me. The young adults came and said, “Thank you for giving voice to what we feel. This is about noise and loud and we also want space for something else. I think the reason for this is, at least in part, here: https://thegospelside.com/2012/10/11/why-the-big-box-church-works-for-the-over-35-but-not-the-under-25/
The culture is changing. And the old ways (of the last 20 years) will simply not work as well in the different environment.
Again, thank you for loving, leading and discipling youth, Josh. Your passionate service blesses me. I hope that engaging in thinking about cultural change helps you reach more kids with the great love of God in Christ.
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Wow, lots of thoughts! Thanks for a challenging article. I agree that the statistics are clear and prompting us to do something. I’m just not convinced that the problem is specifically the coffee bar or style as I feel part of the article is suggesting.
I do agree with the articles implication that discipleship as Jesus modeled for us has been replaced by programs intended to attract people to us. These programs have let us off the hook for making disciples as we go into all the world and follow Jesus in our daily lives. Programs have also created a consumerist version of “church” with all kinds of negative impact including the idea that, “If there isn’t a program JUST for me, I just won’t go (to church.) And since consumers readily change their minds when it comes to what they “purchase” (brand loyalty is difficult), this is one reason we are seeing the decline.
Where I think I disagree is, as I read the article any way, is by placing so much negative emphasis on style – like coffee bars or light shows. Granted, those can be instituted as programs and therefore be detrimental, but I still see the issue as a discipleship issue. That is, regardless of style or if there is a coffee bar or not, discipleship is what keeps people in church more consistently than anything else.
Let’s look at it this way. Suppose two people sit in the free church coffee bar and spend some time disciplining each other. Is that not a good thing? Or what if our small groups are designed around fellowship, discipleship, and mission? Is that then an attractional program or a useful tool to create community and make disciples?
For me the issue is more mission, vision, and design. Is there a mission and vision for disciple making and are our churches designed to carry it out? If so, it shouldn’t really matter if it’s carried out with a coffee bar attached to it or a church organ.
I think you are right in your critique of my critique, Pastor. Discipleship good. No discipleship bad. I like a good cup of coffee myself. I am an Episcopalian. We serve some really bad coffee. For me the big issue is the movement: Is it attractional or missional. Is it about come or go? Is it about teaching people and creating space for people to prayerfully connect with God? Here is a question: If the power went out, could you still have church?
Thanks for your comments, Luke. Blessings in your ministry.
I appreciate this article. I sense at the heart of your words is the passion to reach a lost generation.
With that said, there are so many ways to “do” church. Nobody gets to decide which one is right, or better, or wrong. The key for ALL believers, ALL churches, ALL leaders is simple. Go ye…preach the Gospel…make disciples…love God…be Holy.
If we are CHASING cool/contemporary OR traditional/conservative as our measure of success then of course we are failing! However, even with lights and contemporary, or traditional and stained glass, as long as we are chasing the MISSION of Christ, then Jesus will build His church and the Kingdom of God will grow! THAT, to me is the key.
Amen!
This article is spot on and very much in line with some thoughts I have had and have posted publicly. The response has been overwhelming, especially among my peers, those 28-35. We are a generation who’s spiritual growth has been stunted by the spiritual mismanagement and single-mindedness of those who lead us. I would love to speak with you more! Hope we might find a way to connect.
Keith Smith
Worship Director, Fellowship Bible Church
Thanks Keith. I want to look at what you have read.
Hey Matt, I feel like I have just heard Elijah. Your words on relevance and cool church are dead on. God bless your ministry.
Thanks, Nathan.
Thanks for speaking to my heart! For 20 years my husband and I have tried every kind of youth ministry model, including Life Teen which we love for it’s devotion to the Eucharist and the teachings of the Church, and yet our pews are empty. I have 5 sons, 2 of whom are teenagers and they are lonely every Sunday. It is not Youth Ministry ( or the lack of it) that is bringing them to church, it is their parents. We have learned the hard way that unless the parents have a love of the faith and the teachings of the Church, why would we expect the kids to come on their own? We are seeing them becoming true disciples, willing to sacrifice the worldly pleasures for their place in Heaven, because of our domestic church, and our discussions at home. Our parish music is horrible, the sermons are hit and miss, but one thing stays the same, Jesus and the Sacraments. THAT is what brings us back every week, not the entertainment.
Amen and Amen. Thank you for sharing.
A little lesson in “youth ministry.” The first recorded organized youth ministry program that set the standard for many years was started in 1881 by Rev. Francis E. Clark in Portland, Maine. It was called Christian Endeavor. Within 11 years C.E. (as it was known) spread around the world. Ironically, Dr. Clark had a lot of the same problems back in 1881 as we are experiencing today in the church. Youth were NOT integrating into the life of the church. Church meetings, ie. prayer meetings were cold and lifeless. He had tried all of the “fads” of the days — holding socials, often called “teas”, starting debating societies, etc. Nothing brought the youth into the church and kept them there. However, what was different about C.E. was how it challenged youth. The motto for which C.E. is known is “For Christ and the Church.” In order to be a member you had to take a pledge that said:
“Trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ for strength, I promise Him that I will strive to do whatever He would like to have me do; that I will make it the rule of my life to pray and to read the Bible every day, and to support my own church in every way, especially by attending all here Sunday and mid-week services, unless prevented by some reason I can conscientiously give to my Lord and Saviour; and that just so far as I know how, throughout my whole life, I will endeavor to lead a Christian life.
As an active member I promise to be true to all my duties, to be present at and to take some part, aside from singing, in every Christian Endeavor prayer meeting, unless hindered by some reason which I can conscientiously give to my Lord and Master. If obliged to be absent from the monthly consecration meeting of the society, I will, if possible, send at least a verse of Scripture to be read in response to my name at the roll call.”
If members were found to be lacking in their commitment they could lose their membership! There are also Four Principles which C.E. members are to live by:
1. Confession of Christ
2. Service for Christ
3. Loyalty to Christ’s Church
4. Fellowship with Christ’s People
C.E. was also known for three “Inters” – Inter-national, Inter-denominational, and Inter-racial. Take note of the “Inter-denominational.” Dr. Clark always insisted C.E. was not NON-denominational. Each society taught the distinctives of their own church. They actually became BETTER church members. And as far as Inter-racial, C.E. was a forerunner in the fight for racial equality long before it was popular to do so.
The most striking concept of the original C.E. societies compared to today’s youth groups was that with limited adult oversight the Society organized and ran it’s own program. There were no youth pastors or youth ministers. Usually a couple of the adults of the church who were interested in the youth acted as advisors for the society. The members of the society nominated officers to lead them, they planned the program and events of the Society for the coming year, they ran their meetings and spoke at those meetings. In other words, they learned how a church ran BEFORE they became adults. The work of the society too was not meaningless. The C.E. Society was often called the pastor’s right hand. The youth learned not only about spiritual things but also learned how to apply those teachings in practical ways.
The outcome? Like I said, in 11 years it spread around the world. Eventually it was found in over 80 countries. At it’s height C.E. held a convention in Washington, D.C that numbered over 70,000 participants! Countless pastors, Sunday School teachers, and missionaries were influenced in the path of their lives by C.E.
So what happened? Denominational jealousies began to intrude. Denominations began to run their own “program” somewhat based on the C.E. model. People forgot the particulars that made C.E. “successful.” Other models of “youth ministry” began to emerge, as has been noted in the original comments. Today, although Christian Endeavor still exists in places around the world, many of those leading even the existing C.E. groups have forgotten these things and are actively endorsing the very problem-ridden concepts noted by the post.
For those interested, you can find the record of the first 25 years or so Christian Endeavor in the book “World Wide Endeavor” found at http://books.google.com/books?id=9V-3skCAp50C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false. It is a fascinating story of how God worked through youth to revitalize the church of that day. I believe it is an answer for the ills of the church today.
Thank you, Paul. I read somewhere that Christian Endeavor was behind the founding of Young Life as well.
Believe it or not, Christian Endeavor principles were used as the basis for the founding of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA). Taking a pledge, everyone participating in every meeting, etc. The original AA groups even incorporated Bible study as part of the program. It is well documented, and you can find it here: http://www.dickb.com/Christian_Endeavor.shtml
It bothers me that the church leaders think it’s absolutely necessary to offer coffee and donuts to get folks to come to worship God and the minister says that we don’t have the right to invite anyone to come to Christ. Even the encouragement that folks used to hear from the minister to repent of sin and give your whole heart to Christ is not heard much anymore. Rather, we hear from the pulpit what the latest theological thoughts are from the books the minister has been reading…and where has the in-depth study of Word and application of it gone? What can we expect, but hungry members and weak churches?
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Can we please refrain from blaming everything on the millenials for once? Gen iY…overindulged? Please. Take a look at my student loans.
LOL! At least in my article I am not blaming the millennials. I am blaming MY generation for giving you something we decided that you think is cool without even bothering to ask. I am saying that we are pandering and often look a bit desperate in the attempts.